More privacy!

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- SickGirl13 said...
- Subscriber
- 31 Mar 2008, 10:06
More privacy!

I'd like to suggest another privacy level, like a friends only page.
So people need to have an account and add you if they want to see what are you listening to. I know that last.fm is a community, but all communities have this kind of feature.
I would be glad to have this option. Really really glad.

Thanks! =D

SickGirl13 - There's no beauty without cruelty

[quote][b][user]SickGirl13[/user][/b] said: I'd like to suggest another privacy level, like a friends only page. So people need to have an account and add you if they want to see what are you listening to. I know that last.fm is a community, but all communities have this kind of feature. I would be glad to have this option. Really really glad. Thanks! =D[/quote]

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- DFA1979 said...
- Moderator
- 31 Mar 2008, 10:10
Stuff like this has been suggested before, but I don't much expect it will be introduced, mostly because there isn't really any privacy issue - you can already hide your 'recently listened' from the privacy tab in 'settings', and any personal data (i.e. name, e-mail, pictures, etc.) on the site is completely optional.

Being a moderator does not equate to being last.fm staff. Any views in my posts are my own, and shouldn't be assumed to be shared by other moderators or staff members.
| | Previously Suggested Ideas | Last.fm Server Status Page | |

[quote][b][user]DFA1979[/user][/b] said: Stuff like this has been suggested before, but I don't much expect it will be introduced, mostly because there isn't really any privacy issue - you can already hide your 'recently listened' from the [url=http://www.last.fm/settings/inboxoptions/]privacy tab in 'settings'[/url], and any personal data (i.e. name, e-mail, pictures, etc.) on the site is completely optional. [/quote]

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- Arnona said...
- User
- 31 Mar 2008, 12:15
I couldn't agree more,i also would be really really glad if i could hide my charts

You can not kill me , i have absolutely no life.

[quote][b][user]Arnona[/user][/b] said: I couldn't agree more,i also would be really really glad if i could hide my charts [/quote]

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- razza said...
- User
- 31 Mar 2008, 12:40
I don't see why you have too... Like... Doesn't it really defeat the main purpose of the site to completely have your profile blocked off?

[quote][b][user]razza[/user][/b] said: I don't see why you have too... Like... Doesn't it really defeat the main purpose of the site to completely have your profile blocked off?[/quote]

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- Jester-NL said...
- Moderator
- 31 Mar 2008, 13:34
Arnona said:
I couldn't agree more,i also would be really really glad if i could hide my charts
If you would like to hide your charts, ain't it a better idea to delete your account? Trackcount is kept by every self-respecting mediaplayer nowadays. You can use MySpace/Bebo/Facebook/MSN/... to keep track of your friends.

Like DFA1979 said: apart from a username, nothing is needed to set up an account.
The option to hide recent tracks is a privacy-friendly option. The option to hide ALL your charts would be defying the purpose of the site.

Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
System Status (indication) - Problems scrobbling FAQ - The Last.FM FAQ

[quote][b][user]Jester-NL[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Arnona[/user][/b] said: I couldn't agree more,i also would be really really glad if i could hide my charts [/quote] If you would like to hide your charts, ain't it a better idea to delete your account? Trackcount is kept by every self-respecting mediaplayer nowadays. You can use MySpace/Bebo/Facebook/MSN/... to keep track of your friends. Like DFA1979 said: apart from a username, [b]nothing[/b] is needed to set up an account. The option to [url=http://www.last.fm/settings/inboxoptions/]hide recent tracks[/url] is a privacy-friendly option. The option to hide ALL your charts would be defying the purpose of the site.[/quote]

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- MrsSparkes said...
- User
- 1 Apr 2008, 16:02
Nooo! this aint the other communities darling
this is the best one.

and it doesnt need more privacy!

vote yes on these pictures; 1, 2, 3, 4.

[quote][b][user]MrsSparkes[/user][/b] said: Nooo! this aint the other communities darling this is the best one. and it doesnt need more privacy![/quote]

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- Ey3con said...
- Subscriber
- 1 Apr 2008, 18:52
Bad idea.

Myspace | Recordnerd | iLike
Xbox Live GT: iEy3con | Nintendo Wii Code: 7953-8632-7012-1186
AIM: iEy3con

[quote][b][user]Ey3con[/user][/b] said: Bad idea.[/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 3 Apr 2008, 19:11
Ey3con said:
Bad idea.

It's not like the setting would be mandatory, Ey3con. Wanting to limit historical charts and any other data to only those on your "friends" list is a perfectly valid request.

That being said, compared to music sites with similar features, last.fm has always seemed the better site regarding user control over their own data and privacy. It's surprising that there isn't a "friend's only" setting for all charts. I myself wouldn't use it, but I like seeing concern for users who are less promiscuous with their data than I.

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Ey3con[/user][/b] said: Bad idea.[/quote] It's not like the setting would be mandatory, Ey3con. Wanting to limit historical charts and any other data to only those on your "friends" list is a perfectly valid request. That being said, compared to music sites with similar features, last.fm has always seemed the better site regarding user control over their own data and privacy. It's surprising that there isn't a "friend's only" setting for all charts. I myself wouldn't use it, but I like seeing concern for users who are less promiscuous with their data than I.[/quote]

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- Gregbutler said...
- User
- 3 Apr 2008, 20:29
Bad Idea

I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker!

?

[quote][b][user]Gregbutler[/user][/b] said: I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker![/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 3 Apr 2008, 21:53
Re: Bad Idea

Gregbutler said:
I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker!

I believe you are misunderstanding the request. It would be opt-in like the "hide real-time listening information" setting we have now. However, if you do understand, perhaps you're saying that you think the majority of users would set it to friends only? I think not.

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Gregbutler[/user][/b] said: I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker![/quote] I believe you are misunderstanding the request. It would be opt-in like the "hide real-time listening information" setting we have now. However, if you do understand, perhaps you're saying that you think the majority of users would set it to friends only? I think not.[/quote]

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- Gregbutler said...
- User
- 4 Apr 2008, 19:05
Re: Re: Bad Idea

rabourn said:
Gregbutler said:
I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker!

I believe you are misunderstanding the request. It would be opt-in like the "hide real-time listening information" setting we have now. However, if you do understand, perhaps you're saying that you think the majority of users would set it to friends only? I think not.

Oh Right i get you now, but you now on bebo and stuff its like 50-50 with public and private pages, and its a pain in the tits, i just think it would be annoying, even if the odd page was private

?

[quote][b][user]Gregbutler[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Gregbutler[/user][/b] said: I think it would make last.fm a bit boring if you couldnt look at peoples pages, you'd get bored quicker![/quote] I believe you are misunderstanding the request. It would be opt-in like the "hide real-time listening information" setting we have now. However, if you do understand, perhaps you're saying that you think the majority of users would set it to friends only? I think not.[/quote] Oh Right i get you now, but you now on bebo and stuff its like 50-50 with public and private pages, and its a pain in the tits, i just think it would be annoying, even if the odd page was private[/quote]

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- El_Paulo said...
- User
- 5 Apr 2008, 22:21
I wouldn't use it, but could see why people might. I don't think it does defy the point of the site, as listing your artists isn't the only use of last.fm. Someone may want recommendations, or use the radio player, but also want their artists and tracks kept private.

[quote][b][user]El_Paulo[/user][/b] said: I wouldn't use it, but could see why people might. I don't think it does defy the point of the site, as listing your artists isn't the only use of last.fm. Someone may want recommendations, or use the radio player, but also want their artists and tracks kept private.[/quote]

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- ewanhale said...
- Subscriber
- 6 Apr 2008, 22:03
Then those people can keep their artists and tracks private by not putting in a real name, etc. while still enjoying all the features of the site.

A blank profile is worthless. Simple as.

[quote][b][user]ewanhale[/user][/b] said: Then those people can keep their artists and tracks private by not putting in a real name, etc. while still enjoying all the features of the site. A blank profile is worthless. Simple as.[/quote]

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- iiru808 said...
- User
- 6 Apr 2008, 23:34
I definitely think some kind of profile privacy features should be made available for those of us whom want to protect personal information. (ie users who use their real names in place of nicknames, display blog entries to friends only, display event info to friends only, etc.)

Just my thoughts.

[quote][b][user]iiru808[/user][/b] said: I definitely think some kind of profile privacy features should be made available for those of us whom want to protect personal information. (ie users who use their real names in place of nicknames, display blog entries to friends only, display event info to friends only, etc.) Just my thoughts.[/quote]

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- morti-viventi said...
- User
- 7 Apr 2008, 00:06
I agree with the people here who think it's a useless idea. Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it. You don't need to scrobble or even be a member to listen to last.fm radio, and automated recommendations kind of suck here anyway. Personal recommendations have always been more useful, and you can't get those unless other people can see your profile.

This is the social music revolution. The privacy options offered are good enough to protect your identity, I think anything further would just enable and encourage unhealthy reclusive behavior.

you're a pro tool.

[quote][b][user]morti-viventi[/user][/b] said: I agree with the people here who think it's a useless idea. Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it. You don't need to scrobble or even be a member to listen to last.fm radio, and automated recommendations kind of suck here anyway. Personal recommendations have always been more useful, and you can't get those unless other people can see your profile. This is the [b][i][u][color=black]social[/color][/i][/u][/b] music revolution. The privacy options offered are good enough to protect your identity, I think anything further would just enable and encourage [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder]unhealthy reclusive behavior[/url].[/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 15 Apr 2008, 23:04
morti-viventi said:
Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it.

That is not accurate. As the original post requested, an additional level of access could limit charts to friends only. It would be an optional setting, of course, so that other comrades like you could continue with the revolution.

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]morti-viventi[/user][/b] said: Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it.[/quote] That is not accurate. As the original post requested, an additional level of access could limit charts to friends only. It would be an optional setting, of course, so that other comrades like you could continue with the revolution. [/quote]

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- DFA1979 said...
- Moderator
- 15 Apr 2008, 23:25
rabourn said:
morti-viventi said:
Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it.

That is not accurate. As the original post requested, an additional level of access could limit charts to friends only. It would be an optional setting, of course, so that other comrades like you could continue with the revolution.

How is that any more private than not putting any of your personal details on the site, then telling your friends what your profile is?

The only difference is that this way people who don't know who you are can find out that "somebody listens to x", and as they don't know who you are it literally violates your privacy in no way whatsoever.

Being a moderator does not equate to being last.fm staff. Any views in my posts are my own, and shouldn't be assumed to be shared by other moderators or staff members.
| | Previously Suggested Ideas | Last.fm Server Status Page | |

[quote][b][user]DFA1979[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]morti-viventi[/user][/b] said: Beyond the options already available to you, the only way to make your profile more private is to delete it.[/quote] That is not accurate. As the original post requested, an additional level of access could limit charts to friends only. It would be an optional setting, of course, so that other comrades like you could continue with the revolution. [/quote] How is that any more private than not putting any of your personal details on the site, then telling your friends what your profile is? The only difference is that this way people who don't know who you are can find out that "somebody listens to x", and as they don't know who you are it literally violates your privacy in no way whatsoever.[/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 16 Apr 2008, 00:56
DFA1979 said:
How is that any more private than not putting any of your personal details on the site, then telling your friends what your profile is?

The old "security by obscurity" trick, huh? It's not reliable primarily because people can be naive about the way these things work. They tend to do things like use the same username on multiple sites, etc. You have to consider that when data is publicly displayed it becomes available to search engines and any other crawlers. Then, it doesn't take much to make the links among identities. Privacy for social networking sites is tricky.

(It wouldn't preclude using their data in the aggregate unlinked to a specific identity.)

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]DFA1979[/user][/b] said: How is that any more private than not putting any of your personal details on the site, then telling your friends what your profile is? [/quote] The old "security by obscurity" trick, huh? It's not reliable primarily because people can be naive about the way these things work. They tend to do things like use the same username on multiple sites, etc. You have to consider that when data is publicly displayed it becomes available to search engines and any other crawlers. Then, it doesn't take much to make the links among identities. Privacy for social networking sites is tricky. (It wouldn't preclude using their data in the aggregate unlinked to a specific identity.)[/quote]

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- Jester-NL said...
- Moderator
- 16 Apr 2008, 05:00
And instead of 'security by obscurity', with almost no info available, you suggest more info on the site, but better hidden?

I am sorry, but why would one use social networks (and internet and Google and ...) in the first place... if paranoia is such an issue.

Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
System Status (indication) - Problems scrobbling FAQ - The Last.FM FAQ

[quote][b][user]Jester-NL[/user][/b] said: And instead of 'security by obscurity', with almost no info available, you suggest [i]more[/i] info on the site, but better hidden? I am sorry, but why would one use social networks (and internet and Google and ...) in the first place... if paranoia is such an issue.[/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 16 Apr 2008, 16:23
Jester-NL said:
I am sorry, but why would one use social networks (and internet and Google and ...) in the first place... if paranoia is such an issue.

Maybe you shouldn't. Obviously last.fm is not indifferent to user privacy though as demonstrated by the setting that allows us to "hide real-time listening information."

Think about it from last.fm's POV. If I were running a site, I would want every customer I could get while still earning a decent ROI for the effort to accommodate them. If last.fm decides customers who want this setting aren't worth supporting, then they shouldn't implement it. However, such a setting is quite common on other sites, e.g. flickr, facebook, etc. So, it's not surprising that users would expect it.

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: [quote][b][user]Jester-NL[/user][/b] said: I am sorry, but why would one use social networks (and internet and Google and ...) in the first place... if paranoia is such an issue.[/quote] Maybe [i]you[/i] shouldn't. Obviously last.fm is not indifferent to user privacy though as demonstrated by the setting that allows us to "hide real-time listening information." Think about it from last.fm's POV. If I were running a site, I would want every customer I could get while still earning a decent ROI for the effort to accommodate them. If last.fm decides customers who want this setting aren't worth supporting, then they shouldn't implement it. However, such a setting is quite common on other sites, e.g. flickr, facebook, etc. So, it's not surprising that users would expect it. [/quote]

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- Jester-NL said...
- Moderator
- 16 Apr 2008, 16:51
The purpose of this site (amongst others) is to learn about new music. One of the most used options for that is allowing users to browse other profiles.
I hardly use any of the other social networks out there, and one of the main reasons for me to do so is all the people that feel a pressing urge to be around on these sort of sites, and as a first action close of their profile... I totally miss the point in that.

If the option to hide your stats here would become an option, the result would be that -in the course of browsing the site- you run into dead-ends because "this user does not allow you to see his taste". That would, in the end, defy the purpose I started this reply with.

Furthermore, compare a random profile from Last.FM and one from Bebo/Hyves/MySpace/Facebook/...
You will see that not only a lot less information is asked, there is far less space to display it in the first place. The major part of the profiles here is your musical taste... Once again, if you aren't prepared to share that, you might reconsider the worth of your profile here, and not my modding or answers you do not want to hear.

Click <-- That link will open a PDF-file that compares Last.FM, Google, Orkut, Bebo, MySpace and some other sites... The complete story is here

Remember to say "thank you" for the things you haven't had
System Status (indication) - Problems scrobbling FAQ - The Last.FM FAQ

[quote][b][user]Jester-NL[/user][/b] said: The purpose of this site (amongst others) is to learn about new music. One of the most used options for that is allowing users to browse other profiles. I hardly use any of the other social networks out there, and one of the main reasons for me to do so is all the people that feel a pressing urge to be around on these sort of sites, and as a first action close of their profile... I totally miss the point in that. If the option to hide your stats here would become an option, the result would be that -in the course of browsing the site- you run into dead-ends because "this user does not allow you to see his taste". That would, in the end, defy the purpose I started this reply with. Furthermore, compare a random profile from Last.FM and one from Bebo/Hyves/MySpace/Facebook/... You will see that not only a lot less information is asked, there is far less space to display it in the first place. The major part of the profiles here is your musical taste... Once again, if you aren't prepared to share that, you might reconsider the worth of your profile here, and not my modding or answers you do not want to hear. [url=http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/internet/interimrankings.pdf]Click[/url] <-- That link will open a PDF-file that compares Last.FM, Google, Orkut, Bebo, MySpace and some other sites... The complete story is [url=http://searchengineland.com/070610-100246.php]here[/url][/quote]

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- rabourn said...
- Subscriber
- 16 Apr 2008, 17:37
Thanks for sharing. Please do post any other info last.fm has released about privacy, data retention, etc.

I believe you're thinking about this in a rather binary fashion, i.e. sharing/not sharing when settings can be more nuanced than that. However, as I explained before, showing charts to friends only isn't a feature I would use, but I appreciate last.fm being transparent about data retention and showing concern for user privacy. Judging by their past actions I'm sure they are considering additional settings. The control they give users over their own data is one reason I support the site.

[quote][b][user]rabourn[/user][/b] said: Thanks for sharing. Please do post any other info last.fm has released about privacy, data retention, etc. I believe you're thinking about this in a rather binary fashion, i.e. sharing/not sharing when settings can be more nuanced than that. However, as I explained before, showing charts to friends only isn't a feature I would use, but I appreciate last.fm being transparent about data retention and showing concern for user privacy. Judging by their past actions I'm sure they are considering additional settings. The control they give users over their own data is one reason I support the site.[/quote]

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- optiuum67 said...
- User
- 16 Apr 2008, 20:17
It isn't understandable given the amount of information you let away on the internet with other sites, those that don't ask you for explicit consent. Lets face it, nobody on last.fm really cares what music you listen to and you don't have to give away any personal information on here if you don't want to.

I win... sort of

[quote][b][user]optiuum67[/user][/b] said: It isn't understandable given the amount of information you let away on the internet with other sites, those that don't ask you for explicit consent. Lets face it, nobody on last.fm really cares what music you listen to and you don't have to give away any personal information on here if you don't want to.[/quote]

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- kevinspencer said...
- Subscriber
- 16 Apr 2008, 20:55
If you make your profile friends only, how would you acquire new friends if the original last.fm "icebreaker" of "hey, you've been listening to some great stuff recently" is now moot?

What am I missing? Are you saying that perhaps you've acquired enough friends that you now want to wall yourself off and make no more?

[quote][b][user]kevinspencer[/user][/b] said: If you make your profile friends only, how would you acquire new friends if the original last.fm "icebreaker" of "hey, you've been listening to some great stuff recently" is now moot? What am I missing? Are you saying that perhaps you've acquired enough friends that you now want to wall yourself off and make no more?[/quote]

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- Babs_05 said...
- Subscriber
- 16 Apr 2008, 22:27
I have to agree with those who say this is a bad idea.

Why hide charts unless you have something to hide? Secret Radiohead scrobbles when no one's looking!?

You're not defined by your taste, no one can point at you in the street and identify you based on your charts, 'there goes Mr 20k Abba scrobbles'. There is a need in other social network sites that encourage users to post personal stuff like photos, where you work, etc, etc, but compared to Last.fm they're dull and I don't use them as much. People don't really interest me but their ideas do. Last.fm is fantastic for that. It encourages an exchange of ideas and information that you don't get anywhere else. I've learnt absolutely loads here.

The one thing that Last.fm has that none of the others have is an established topic of conversation. We have a reason to talk to each other and engage. Take that away and you kill the site.

NNME Sept NNME Archives My Gang Albums 08 The Chiller Cabinet The Arctic Circle

Recommended Reading Central Point: where artists and listeners meet
Reco Of The Week - Sherbet - Howzat

[quote][b][user]Babs_05[/user][/b] said: I have to agree with those who say this is a bad idea. Why hide charts unless you have something to hide? Secret Radiohead scrobbles when no one's looking!? You're not defined by your taste, no one can point at you in the street and identify you based on your charts, 'there goes Mr 20k Abba scrobbles'. There is a need in other social network sites that encourage users to post personal stuff like photos, where you work, etc, etc, but compared to Last.fm they're dull and I don't use them as much. People don't really interest me but their ideas do. Last.fm is fantastic for that. It encourages an exchange of ideas and information that you don't get anywhere else. I've learnt absolutely loads here. The one thing that Last.fm has that none of the others have is an established topic of conversation. We have a reason to talk to each other and engage. Take that away and you kill the site.[/quote]

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